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Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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I wrote a short article about what's going on in Iraq, since the mass-media does not care about it. Hopefully I can rase some awareness to begin with:


Before the invasion there were approximately 1.5 million christians in Iraq, today it is less than 400 000.

ISIS are commiting genocide against the native Christians of Iraq, it is very similarily to the genocide that took place in Turkey during World War 1. They are faced with a similar ultimatum: convert to Islam, pay a high tax, or die. Christian homes and buildings are also being marked with the arabic letter for n, which stands for Nazarene -- in a way that is similar to how Jewish homes were marked with the Star of David in Nazi-Germany.

The city of Mosul has been a centre of Chrisitianity for almost 2000 years and is now, for the first time in history, completely empty of Christians. People were forced to leave Mosul last week without any of their belongings, without any food and without anything of value. These christians have not recieved any humanitarian support from the UN and are dependent on what can be spared from the people in the cities they have fled to.

Several churches have been burned to the ground, inclouding a 1800-year-old church. The tomb of the profet Jonah has also been destroyed along with many ancient religious symbols.

And despite all this, the mass-media, the US, the EU and the UN have shown no commitment to putting a stop to these atrocities. Instead, all of their focus has been put on the conflicts in Gaza and the Ukraine.

Sources:

About the exodus from Mosul


About the desctruction of a 1800-year-old church

About a christian father who commited sucide after seeing his daughter and wife being brutally raped by members of ISIS

About ISIS's intention on forcing female genital mutilation on all women up to the age of 49

Video interview with Christians who have fled Mosul

It makes me sick how the world's governments are always quick to condemn genocides, AFTER it has already happened... They need to take action right now and establish safe zones in Iraq. The US especially needs to take responsibility for the chaos that they have caused in the region, both by the invasion and by funding extremist rebels in the Syrian war.



on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:11 pm

SilentGamer64 | 3933 Wort! Wort! Wort!

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It's pretty chilling to know that history repeats itself in the worst ways possible. I think the reason the US isn't immediately responding to this is because of Gaza and Ukraine.

I mean, how many cases of civil violence does the US have to handle at once? People were saying we were on the brink of WWIII when Russia started pushing forces into Ukraine.

And then we have Israel, who is backed by the US but doesn't know how to play nice with its neighbors (not that their neighbors are any better). Of course when you look at the history between the two, their butting of heads stems a lot deeper than the US and it's neighbors (there was like one conflict with Mexico in the past with the Alamo and stuff...I need to brush up on my US history). But historically, most of the US' enemies/rivals were across the ocean. These guys are physically pushing on each others borders. :/



on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:27 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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SilentGamer64 wrote:It's pretty chilling to know that history repeats itself in the worst ways possible. I think the reason the US isn't immediately responding to this is because of Gaza and Ukraine.

I mean, how many cases of civil violence does the US have to handle at once? People were saying we were on the brink of WWIII when Russia started pushing forces into Ukraine.

And then we have Israel, who is backed by the US but doesn't know how to play nice with its neighbors (not that their neighbors are any better). Of course when you look at the history between the two, their butting of heads stems a lot deeper than the US and it's neighbors (there was like one conflict with Mexico in the past with the Alamo and stuff...I need to brush up on my US history). But historically, most of the US' enemies/rivals were across the ocean. These guys are physically pushing on each others borders. :/

That is correct, Gaza and Ukranie is all you ever hear about in media. But what is the reason of this do you think?

The reason the US government hasn't done anything to help is because they are the ones who caused this in the first place, and I'm not even talking about the invasion. Them and their allies have been funding all kinds of islamic fundementalists in Syria and Iraq, so it would sort of be counterproductive to help civilians now. It's obvious that the US is out to get Iran, and funding terrorist organizations is in their plan to destroy Iran's ally Syria by destablizing the region and causing religious civil wars in the middle east. Syria is a prime example of a proxy war and now it is also affecting Iraq.

Ultimately the dumb and corrupted media is to blame for the lack of intervention in Iraq. What's happening in Iraq is just as important, if not more important, than what is happening in the Ukraine and Gaza. But these conflicts are more widely known because they are in the intrests of both the government and the masses. They have not shown ANY coverage of the violence against civilians in Iraq on television. There has been A FEW newspapper articles on the internet and that's it!

Most people don't even know what is happening there, or they don't care! And it's because the govenrment and the media doen't want people to know or care. They want you to be distracted with the headlines about the Ukraine and Gaza so they wont have to take responsibility for the civilians in the middle east.

Genodice always takes place in the shadow of other wars, that's one lesson we can learn from the world wars.

I like to think that if we put more presure on the media and the politicians, that we will see some action. But the media only buys what the masses want, and not alot of people seem to care about christian minorities...


Edit: found a great article about the westworld's silence to Iraq's situation:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100280803/iraqi-christians-are-raped-murdered-and-driven-from-their-homes-and-the-west-is-silent/



on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:08 am

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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I've known about this for a while, and it is pretty -Cheesecake!- up. Why genocide doesn't get much coverage is beyond me, but at least the US media (as far as I know) has put up some Anti-ISIS propoganda.

Though with the soldiers moving in closer and closer to victory against Iraq and Syria, I have a feeling that intervention might have to happen to keep stability in the region. (We don't need any more warmongering empires in the modern day and age. And by warmongering I mean places that conquer others as their own territory).

I can understand what ISIS is doing, Islam does have the commandment to convert everybody into Muslims, and all that good stuff. A lot of things that they use in their Quran, they use the peaceful verses, but when a contradiction comes up, the one that was written later has authority over the earlier one, which means that a lot of the violent verses are the commandments. So, technically, making a global empire would make sense to do if they want to fully follow their religion. :/

I don't agree with the way ISIS is going about everything however, and hopefully they can be stopped. By the looks of it, nobody likes them.

Also, JONAH'S TOMB WAS DESTROYED!!? WHAT THE -Cheesecake!-!!



on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:33 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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mini0013xx wrote:I've known about this for a while, and it is pretty -Cheesecake!- up. Why genocide doesn't get much coverage is beyond me, but at least the US media (as far as I know) has put up some Anti-ISIS propoganda.

Though with the soldiers moving in closer and closer to victory against Iraq and Syria, I have a feeling that intervention might have to happen to keep stability in the region. (We don't need any more warmongering empires in the modern day and age. And by warmongering I mean places that conquer others as their own territory).

I can understand what ISIS is doing, Islam does have the commandment to convert everybody into Muslims, and all that good stuff. A lot of things that they use in their Quran, they use the peaceful verses, but when a contradiction comes up, the one that was written later has authority over the earlier one, which means that a lot of the violent verses are the commandments. So, technically, making a global empire would make sense to do if they want to fully follow their religion. :/

I don't agree with the way ISIS is going about everything however, and hopefully they can be stopped. By the looks of it, nobody likes them.

Also, JONAH'S TOMB WAS DESTROYED!!? WHAT THE -Cheesecake!-!!

What they are doing is allowed by the Quran:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. - 9:29

When Syria was first conquered 1377 years ago, the christians (and a jewish minority) were faced with the same ultimatum as ISIS gives today: 1) Convert to Islam 2) Die 3) Pay the Jizya tax.
I get really pissed off when history books say that muslims treated other religions well. That is BS, sure most were able to pay the tax and atleast didn't die. But they were still being opressed and treated worse than second class citizents, sort of like an apartheid system.

This is a contract that the leaders of Syria were forced to sign:

In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

- We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.

- We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.

- We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.

- We shall not teach the Qur'an to our children.

- We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.

- We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.

- We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.

- We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.

- We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.

- We shall not sell fermented (alkoholic) drinks.

- We shall clip the fronts of our heads.

- We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists

- We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.

- We shall not take slaves who have beenallotted to Muslims.

- We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.


Source:http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.asp
"religion of peace" my @ss..

But anyway, I think this guy does a really good job in explaning why the West is keeping these events in the background:
Yet, having been so intimately involved in the collapse of Iraq, the West is now bizarrely silent about events in Mosul. The streets of London fill with thousands marching against Israel’s military operation in Gaza; the West rails mightily against the Russian separatists in Ukraine. But of Iraq there is nothing. Why?  

It could be that no Westerner wants to return to Iraq, that politicians fear that even discussing the country will lead voters to fear yet another invasion and yet another bloody occupation. Or it could be that we feel embarrassed about the very idea of Christians as a persecuted minority
.


"Also, JONAH'S TOMB WAS DESTROYED!!? WHAT THE -Cheesecake!-!!"

First destroyed it with a sledgehammer:


Then they decided to blow up everything for good measure:


And here they are destroying an christian semetary (it's funny how they are trying to destroy the stone cross for like 5 minutes, yet it doesn't even budge):

For some reason they are even destroying mosques! :S



on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:10 pm

Wiltz | 2486 Joy Killer

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I'll just put down a few things that should clarify some things.

Firstly, and most importantly, the UN and EU will never get involved in this kind of situation because it is religious and UN policy is to not intervene in a religious conflict.

Secondly, I saw this all over the media at one point, its not that the media doesn't care but Ukraine and the Gaza Conflict are more recent and have much larger repercussions. I mean the MH17 flight could have led to WWIII if it went the wrong way, and the Gaza Conflict is about retaliation from Israel which could potentially blow up into a full scale war around the Middle East. No wonder media are putting these things first, since they have the potential to kill more than 1.5 million lives.

ISIS are obviously doing horrible things at the moment but the UN's hands are tied and there are more potential problems rising in the middle east and even the world.



on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:36 pm



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mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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Mad Mike wrote:
mini0013xx wrote:I've known about this for a while, and it is pretty -Cheesecake!- up. Why genocide doesn't get much coverage is beyond me, but at least the US media (as far as I know) has put up some Anti-ISIS propoganda.

Though with the soldiers moving in closer and closer to victory against Iraq and Syria, I have a feeling that intervention might have to happen to keep stability in the region. (We don't need any more warmongering empires in the modern day and age. And by warmongering I mean places that conquer others as their own territory).

I can understand what ISIS is doing, Islam does have the commandment to convert everybody into Muslims, and all that good stuff. A lot of things that they use in their Quran, they use the peaceful verses, but when a contradiction comes up, the one that was written later has authority over the earlier one, which means that a lot of the violent verses are the commandments. So, technically, making a global empire would make sense to do if they want to fully follow their religion. :/

I don't agree with the way ISIS is going about everything however, and hopefully they can be stopped. By the looks of it, nobody likes them.

Also, JONAH'S TOMB WAS DESTROYED!!? WHAT THE -Cheesecake!-!!

What they are doing is allowed by the Quran:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. - 9:29

When Syria was first conquered 1377 years ago, the christians (and a jewish minority) were faced with the same ultimatum as ISIS gives today: 1) Convert to Islam 2) Die 3) Pay the Jizya tax.
I get really pissed off when history books say that muslims treated other religions well. That is BS, sure most were able to pay the tax and atleast didn't die. But they were still being opressed and treated worse than second class citizents, sort of like an apartheid system.

This is a contract that the leaders of Syria were forced to sign:

In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

- We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.

- We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.

- We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.

- We shall not teach the Qur'an to our children.

- We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.

- We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.

- We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.

- We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.

- We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.

- We shall not sell fermented (alkoholic) drinks.

- We shall clip the fronts of our heads.

- We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists

- We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.

- We shall not take slaves who have beenallotted to Muslims.

- We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.


Source:http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.asp
"religion of peace" my @ss..

But anyway, I think this guy does a really good job in explaning why the West is keeping these events in the background:
Yet, having been so intimately involved in the collapse of Iraq, the West is now bizarrely silent about events in Mosul. The streets of London fill with thousands marching against Israel’s military operation in Gaza; the West rails mightily against the Russian separatists in Ukraine. But of Iraq there is nothing. Why?  

It could be that no Westerner wants to return to Iraq, that politicians fear that even discussing the country will lead voters to fear yet another invasion and yet another bloody occupation. Or it could be that we feel embarrassed about the very idea of Christians as a persecuted minority
.


"Also, JONAH'S TOMB WAS DESTROYED!!? WHAT THE -Cheesecake!-!!"

First destroyed it with a sledgehammer:


Then they decided to blow up everything for good measure:


And here they are destroying an christian semetary (it's funny how they are trying to destroy the stone cross for like 5 minutes, yet it doesn't even budge):

For some reason they are even destroy


Watching the video of the building exploding was... a little home chilling to say the least.

Yeah, I didn't like Isis from day 1, but you step into a different level of bad when persecution, genocide, and that kind of blatant disrespect takes place.[/quote]



on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:05 am

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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Wiltz wrote:I'll just put down a few things that should clarify some things.

Firstly, and most importantly, the UN and EU will never get involved in this kind of situation because it is religious and UN policy is to not intervene in a religious conflict.

Secondly, I saw this all over the media at one point, its not that the media doesn't care but Ukraine and the Gaza Conflict are more recent and have much larger repercussions. I mean the MH17 flight could have led to WWIII if it went the wrong way, and the Gaza Conflict is about retaliation from Israel which could potentially blow up into a full scale war around the Middle East. No wonder media are putting these things first, since they have the potential to kill more than 1.5 million lives.

ISIS are obviously doing horrible things at the moment but the UN's hands are tied and there are more potential problems rising in the middle east and even the world.

If that is the case, then the UN are either dumb as sh*t and completely ignorant, or they just don't give a f*ck... :/

What's happening in Iraq is NOT a religious war, it's a ethnic/religious genocide. The people who are being killed in Iraq are Assyrians, Syriacs (like me) and Chaldeans, all of which are Christians (shia muslims are also being killed). They are also the native population of Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon and small parts of Western Iran -- in other words, they are the descendants of the mesopotamians. Despite this, the international community only regognizes them as "christian minorities" instead of natives. They are being driven from their homes and killed, and still they are unable to fight back. So this is NOT a conflict, it's one-sided genocide. Like what Hitler did to the jews, who were also both a religous AND an ethnic group.

And how come the UN could intervene when the Rwandan government killed the Tutsis, but they can't do anything about this? That is bullsh*t, people just don't want to get involved in the middle-east (primarily Iraq) again because of the backlash it would cause. So they just look the other way and tell themselves that their hands are tied.

Also, what is happening in the Ukraine and Gaza is by no means worse or more important than what is happening in Iraq and Syria, neither is it more recent. Ukraine seperatists are freaking choir boys compared to the animals in ISIS.
In its report, the UN mission to Iraq says at least 5,576 civilians were killed and another 11,665 wounded from 1 January until the end of June.

Another 1.2 million have been driven from their homes by the violence, it adds.  The pace of civilian deaths over the first six months marked a sharp increase over the previous year. In all of 2013, the UN reported just over 7,800 civilians killed, which was the highest annual death toll in years.

Now lets look at the death toll in Eastern Ukraine:
At least 356 people, including 257 civilians, have died since the beginning of the “anti-terrorist” operation in Ukraine’s eastern regions of Lugansk and Donetsk, according to UN calculations.

I don't like playing numbers with human lives, but 356 is not nearly as much as 7,800 (all of which were civilians)! And the situation in Iraq and Syria is by no means less important in a global perspective: if the Iraqi and Syrian governments collapse and fall into the hands of monsters like ISIS it would lead to an all out war in all of the middle east. It would lead to the death of esentially all minorities and millions of civilians. The conflicts would also likely spread to Iran, Israel and Lebanon.

ISIS isn't some teenage gang with guns, they are well trained and funded by US-allies (aka Saudi-Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the whole bunch). But of course, you wont hear that on television... They also have support of many muslims in the west. Sitting this one out is not only going to mean the destruction of a 2000 year old heritage and countless of deaths, it's also going to bite the West in the @ss.

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about Gaza or the Ukraine, but those countries have enough attention already. The whole world is talking about it. But the only thing you heard about Iraq on television was that ISIS is in fact gaining power, but they said nothing about the atrocities they commited or who how the civilians suffer...



on Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:02 pm

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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Mad Mike wrote:
Wiltz wrote:I'll just put down a few things that should clarify some things.

Firstly, and most importantly, the UN and EU will never get involved in this kind of situation because it is religious and UN policy is to not intervene in a religious conflict.

Secondly, I saw this all over the media at one point, its not that the media doesn't care but Ukraine and the Gaza Conflict are more recent and have much larger repercussions. I mean the MH17 flight could have led to WWIII if it went the wrong way, and the Gaza Conflict is about retaliation from Israel which could potentially blow up into a full scale war around the Middle East. No wonder media are putting these things first, since they have the potential to kill more than 1.5 million lives.

ISIS are obviously doing horrible things at the moment but the UN's hands are tied and there are more potential problems rising in the middle east and even the world.

If that is the case, then the UN are either dumb as sh*t and completely ignorant, or they just don't give a f*ck... :/

What's happening in Iraq is NOT a religious war, it's a ethnic/religious genocide. The people who are being killed in Iraq are Assyrians, Syriacs (like me) and Chaldeans, all of which are Christians (shia muslims are also being killed). They are also the native population of Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon and small parts of Western Iran -- in other words, they are the descendants of the mesopotamians. Despite this, the international community only regognizes them as "christian minorities" instead of natives. They are being driven from their homes and killed, and still they are unable to fight back. So this is NOT a conflict, it's one-sided genocide. Like what Hitler did to the jews, who were also both a religous AND an ethnic group.

And how come the UN could intervene when the Rwandan government killed the Tutsis, but they can't do anything about this? That is bullsh*t, people just don't want to get involved in the middle-east (primarily Iraq) again because of the backlash it would cause. So they just look the other way and tell themselves that their hands are tied.

Also, what is happening in the Ukraine and Gaza is by no means worse or more important than what is happening in Iraq and Syria, neither is it more recent. Ukraine seperatists are freaking choir boys compared to the animals in ISIS.
In its report, the UN mission to Iraq says at least 5,576 civilians were killed and another 11,665 wounded from 1 January until the end of June.

Another 1.2 million have been driven from their homes by the violence, it adds.  The pace of civilian deaths over the first six months marked a sharp increase over the previous year. In all of 2013, the UN reported just over 7,800 civilians killed, which was the highest annual death toll in years.

Now lets look at the death toll in Eastern Ukraine:
At least 356 people, including 257 civilians, have died since the beginning of the “anti-terrorist” operation in Ukraine’s eastern regions of Lugansk and Donetsk, according to UN calculations.

I don't like playing numbers with human lives, but 356 is not nearly as much as 7,800 (all of which were civilians)! And the situation in Iraq and Syria is by no means less important in a global perspective: if the Iraqi and Syrian governments collapse and fall into the hands of monsters like ISIS it would lead to an all out war in all of the middle east. It would lead to the death of esentially all minorities and millions of civilians. The conflicts would also likely spread to Iran, Israel and Lebanon.

ISIS isn't some teenage gang with guns, they are well trained and funded by US-allies (aka Saudi-Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the whole bunch). But of course, you wont hear that on television... They also have support of many muslims in the west. Sitting this one out is not only going to mean the destruction of a 2000 year old heritage and countless of deaths, it's also going to bite the West in the @ss.

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about Gaza or the Ukraine, but those countries have enough attention already. The whole world is talking about it. But the only thing you heard about Iraq on television was that ISIS is in fact gaining power, but they said nothing about the atrocities they commited or who how the civilians suffer...

Actually, after looking some stuff up, I don't think ISIS will be able to take control of Iraq. When they get to the shia fighters, I'm sure they're not gonna run away. I'm sure they'll fight. On top of that, their progress in Syria is kind of a joke considering how many other factions there are. They don't even want to cross the river to the Kurds, mostly because that'll be bad for them. (Kurds know how to fight much better).

On top of that. Al queda no longer supports them (they were kicked out of the al queda for being too violent) and also Saudi Arabia cut their funding, so I think ISIS is doomed from the start. On a bad side, I also think Iraq might be too. :/



on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:42 pm

Wiltz | 2486 Joy Killer

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Let me just point out the UN can't get involved in any religious conflict, be it war or genocide. With the Tutsis in Rwanda that was not a religious conflict, the Tutsis are christian and the Hutus are also christian. The fight was more over who should be in charge, the Hutus are the Tutsis, the Hutus won and the people in charge at the time demended the Tutsis be gone. UN got involved as it was more diplomatic.

Also, don't just look at the numbers for the amount of people killed to deem something more important. The likelihood is if the Ukraine conflict went sour it could of led to WWIII, leading to mass conscription and so more people would die. Like in WWI and WWII.

The Grand Invasion of Gaza is so tense at the moment war in the entire Middle East could start, that is way more than 1.5 million lives. Also, again the UN cannot intervene in this war as it is religious.

Obviously everything going on at the moment is horrible but there's no need to say that the UN are doing nothing. To think that is foolish considering all they have done in the past. The reason why the UN says they will not get involved in a religious conflict is because it cannot be stopped until both sides are satisfied with the bloodshed, all the UN can do is ensure safety when leaving the country, another thing they did with the Tutsis.



on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:38 pm



FEAR THE OWL

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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mini0013xx wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:

If that is the case, then the UN are either dumb as sh*t and completely ignorant, or they just don't give a f*ck... :/

What's happening in Iraq is NOT a religious war, it's a ethnic/religious genocide. The people who are being killed in Iraq are Assyrians, Syriacs (like me) and Chaldeans, all of which are Christians (shia muslims are also being killed). They are also the native population of Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon and small parts of Western Iran -- in other words, they are the descendants of the mesopotamians. Despite this, the international community only regognizes them as "christian minorities" instead of natives. They are being driven from their homes and killed, and still they are unable to fight back. So this is NOT a conflict, it's one-sided genocide. Like what Hitler did to the jews, who were also both a religous AND an ethnic group.

And how come the UN could intervene when the Rwandan government killed the Tutsis, but they can't do anything about this? That is bullsh*t, people just don't want to get involved in the middle-east (primarily Iraq) again because of the backlash it would cause. So they just look the other way and tell themselves that their hands are tied.

Also, what is happening in the Ukraine and Gaza is by no means worse or more important than what is happening in Iraq and Syria, neither is it more recent. Ukraine seperatists are freaking choir boys compared to the animals in ISIS.
In its report, the UN mission to Iraq says at least 5,576 civilians were killed and another 11,665 wounded from 1 January until the end of June.

Another 1.2 million have been driven from their homes by the violence, it adds.  The pace of civilian deaths over the first six months marked a sharp increase over the previous year. In all of 2013, the UN reported just over 7,800 civilians killed, which was the highest annual death toll in years.

Now lets look at the death toll in Eastern Ukraine:
At least 356 people, including 257 civilians, have died since the beginning of the “anti-terrorist” operation in Ukraine’s eastern regions of Lugansk and Donetsk, according to UN calculations.

I don't like playing numbers with human lives, but 356 is not nearly as much as 7,800 (all of which were civilians)! And the situation in Iraq and Syria is by no means less important in a global perspective: if the Iraqi and Syrian governments collapse and fall into the hands of monsters like ISIS it would lead to an all out war in all of the middle east. It would lead to the death of esentially all minorities and millions of civilians. The conflicts would also likely spread to Iran, Israel and Lebanon.

ISIS isn't some teenage gang with guns, they are well trained and funded by US-allies (aka Saudi-Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the whole bunch). But of course, you wont hear that on television... They also have support of many muslims in the west. Sitting this one out is not only going to mean the destruction of a 2000 year old heritage and countless of deaths, it's also going to bite the West in the @ss.

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about Gaza or the Ukraine, but those countries have enough attention already. The whole world is talking about it. But the only thing you heard about Iraq on television was that ISIS is in fact gaining power, but they said nothing about the atrocities they commited or who how the civilians suffer...

Actually, after looking some stuff up, I don't think ISIS will be able to take control of Iraq. When they get to the shia fighters, I'm sure they're not gonna run away. I'm sure they'll fight. On top of that, their progress in Syria is kind of a joke considering how many other factions there are. They don't even want to cross the river to the Kurds, mostly because that'll be bad for them. (Kurds know how to fight much better).

On top of that. Al queda no longer supports them (they were kicked out of the al queda for being too violent) and also Saudi Arabia cut their funding, so I think ISIS is doomed from the start. On a bad side, I also think Iraq might be too. :/

Valid points. The kurds are not gonna let ISIS advance into their teritory. Then again, the kurds have their own agenda aswell, although atleast they aren't killing civilians. I think that they will however try to absorb the Nineveh Plains into Kurdistan, which I'm not sure I like. It's sad that just a year ago, the Asyrians and other christian ethnic groups were finally going to get self-rule over part of Iraq, which has been the dream ever since the Arabs first conquered it hundreds of years ago. Then this sh*t happened...

But ISIS still have alot of money and weaponry for the time being, remember that they got 429 million dollars from the bank in Mousul alone. But yeah, even if they collapse eventually, the country will be in ruins by that time. (also, do you have a source on Saudi-Arabia cutting their funding? Because I can't find anything about it)



on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:52 pm

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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Mad Mike wrote:
mini0013xx wrote:

Actually, after looking some stuff up, I don't think ISIS will be able to take control of Iraq. When they get to the shia fighters, I'm sure they're not gonna run away. I'm sure they'll fight. On top of that, their progress in Syria is kind of a joke considering how many other factions there are. They don't even want to cross the river to the Kurds, mostly because that'll be bad for them. (Kurds know how to fight much better).

On top of that. Al queda no longer supports them (they were kicked out of the al queda for being too violent) and also Saudi Arabia cut their funding, so I think ISIS is doomed from the start. On a bad side, I also think Iraq might be too. :/

Valid points. The kurds are not gonna let ISIS advance into their teritory. Then again, the kurds have their own agenda aswell, although atleast they aren't killing civilians. I think that they will however try to absorb the Nineveh Plains into Kurdistan, which I'm not sure I like. It's sad that just a year ago, the Asyrians and other christian ethnic groups were finally going to get self-rule over part of Iraq, which has been the dream ever since the Arabs first conquered it hundreds of years ago. Then this sh*t happened...

But ISIS still have alot of money and weaponry for the time being, remember that they got 429 million dollars from the bank in Mousul alone. But yeah, even if they collapse eventually, the country will be in ruins by that time. (also, do you have a source on Saudi-Arabia cutting their funding? Because I can't find anything about it)

I have a world newspaper app on my phone. I don't know what article it was.

In the app, in Iranian news, in a well placed Iraqi air raid a few ISIL leaders were killed.

And I didn't know that the Christians were going to gain independence from Iraqi control. When was this gonna happen?



on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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mini0013xx wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:

Valid points. The kurds are not gonna let ISIS advance into their teritory. Then again, the kurds have their own agenda aswell, although atleast they aren't killing civilians. I think that they will however try to absorb the Nineveh Plains into Kurdistan, which I'm not sure I like. It's sad that just a year ago, the Asyrians and other christian ethnic groups were finally going to get self-rule over part of Iraq, which has been the dream ever since the Arabs first conquered it hundreds of years ago. Then this sh*t happened...

But ISIS still have alot of money and weaponry for the time being, remember that they got 429 million dollars from the bank in Mousul alone. But yeah, even if they collapse eventually, the country will be in ruins by that time. (also, do you have a source on Saudi-Arabia cutting their funding? Because I can't find anything about it)

And I didn't know that the Christians were going to gain independence from Iraqi control. When was this gonna happen?

It was pretty hard for me to find a good article about it, since it's really old news by now, especially considering everything that's happened... but this one sums it up pretty well:
http://www.ishtartv.com/en/viewarticle,35337.html

This was such a huge step forward for all christian people in the middle east, and those with roots/family there. I remember being very happy when I first found out about it. But it's never going to happen now. If the Kurds take over the Nineveh Plains from ISIS, the situation might be stabilized eventually, but they will never allow self rule for the christian people (I'm not holding any grudges but the kurds DID take a large part in the genocide in Turkey during 1915.)



on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:50 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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Wiltz wrote:Let me just point out the UN can't get involved in any religious conflict, be it war or genocide. With the Tutsis in Rwanda that was not a religious conflict, the Tutsis are christian and the Hutus are also christian. The fight was more over who should be in charge, the Hutus are the Tutsis, the Hutus won and the people in charge at the time demended the Tutsis be gone. UN got involved as it was more diplomatic.

Also, don't just look at the numbers for the amount of people killed to deem something more important. The likelihood is if the Ukraine conflict went sour it could of led to WWIII, leading to mass conscription and so more people would die. Like in WWI and WWII.

The Grand Invasion of Gaza is so tense at the moment war in the entire Middle East could start, that is way more than 1.5 million lives. Also, again the UN cannot intervene in this war as it is religious.

Obviously everything going on at the moment is horrible but there's no need to say that the UN are doing nothing. To think that is foolish considering all they have done in the past. The reason why the UN says they will not get involved in a religious conflict is because it cannot be stopped until both sides are satisfied with the bloodshed, all the UN can do is ensure safety when leaving the country, another thing they did with the Tutsis.


I see were you're comming from, but labeling any conflict as only-religious is narrow-minded, it's never that simple. And like I said, it's not just religious persecution, it's ethnic persecution aswell.

No conflict is only religious, there are ALWAYS bigger forces at hand. In Iraq's case, the people who are funding ISIS are just as responsible for all deaths. Why are there no sanctions against the Arab countries, and America, who are fueling these proxy wars? It's because the UN are incompetent and only run by intrests, not by morals. They only help people when the intrests of the rich western countries aren't theathened. That's why you NEVER see any sanctions against countries like the US, the UK or even Saudi-Arabia. The UN is just a makro structure of any society, the rich and influentual get away with anything and can do anything, while the poor without influence get punished for everything.

I'm not trying to make it seem like I'm against you, you're just explaining the UN's standpoint, and I understand it. But I just think that their excuses are BS. How can it be ok to kill people for religion, but not ok to kill people for power? All wars are actually about power, religion is just used as a motivational tool by leaders higher up.

And I understand the importance of the conflicts in Gaza and the Ukraine, but it is no excuse to ignore bigger conflicts just because of the POTENTIAL of escalation. I think the situation in the Ukraine hasn't changed alot in terms of global tension, there were way more tension world-wide when it came to Chrimea compared to now. The chances of The Ukraine conflict causing a world war is pretty slim for the time being i think.

The Gaza conflict IS of great importance and should be covered, but at the same time the media and the international community can't just ignore everything else..



on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:37 pm

Wiltz | 2486 Joy Killer

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The only thing I would say is there have been sanctions imposed on ISIS.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/07/28/U-N-warns-of-sanctions-for-oil-trading-with-Syria-Iraq-militants.html



on Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:48 pm



FEAR THE OWL

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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Wiltz wrote:The only thing I would say is there have been sanctions imposed on ISIS.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/07/28/U-N-warns-of-sanctions-for-oil-trading-with-Syria-Iraq-militants.html

That's a good start, but more still needs to be done.



on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:45 pm

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Aug-03/265906-isis-militants-take-over-iraqs-mosul-dam-after-kurds-withdraw-witnesses-state-tv.ashx#axzz39LRmee7k

Bad news up above.



on Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:08 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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Now these f*ckers are trying to get a piece of Lebanon... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-brings-its-war-to-lebanon--and-it-could-be-a-key-part-of-a-masterplan-9648009.html

I'm not so sure these scum are just gonna die off as fast as you though... :/



on Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:05 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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Finally something is being done!

Obama is considering air strikes against ISIS: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/obama-weighs-military-strikes-to-aid-trapped-iraqis-officials-say.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

France calls for UN security meeting: http://www.todayonline.com/world/france-calls-un-security-council-meeting-over-iraq-situation

This is good news but you know what REALLY pisses me off? It's that the whole world didn't give a single f*ck when tens of thousands of christians were fleeing from Mousul and there was not anything mentioned about it on TV, but now that a few kurds have died and now that 40 000 yazidi are trapped in the mountains... "OH HOLD ON, SOMEONE OTHER THAN CHRISTIANS ARE GETTING KILLED! WE CAN'T HAVE THIS! PUT THIS ON THE NEWS!"

All because of how much the secular world hates it's christian roots. Talking about christians makes them feel awkward because it reminds them that Europe USED to be Christian countries. Therefore, it's easier for them to talk about muslims being killed, jews being killed or yazidis being killed. These countries make me sick... discriminating a*sholes...



on Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:32 pm

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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Mad Mike wrote:Finally something is being done!

Obama is considering air strikes against ISIS: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/obama-weighs-military-strikes-to-aid-trapped-iraqis-officials-say.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

France calls for UN security meeting: http://www.todayonline.com/world/france-calls-un-security-council-meeting-over-iraq-situation

This is good news but you know what REALLY pisses me off? It's that the whole world didn't give a single f*ck when tens of thousands of christians were fleeing from Mousul and there was not anything mentioned about it on TV, but now that a few kurds have died and now that 40 000 yazidi are trapped in the mountains... "OH HOLD ON, SOMEONE OTHER THAN CHRISTIANS ARE GETTING KILLED! WE CAN'T HAVE THIS! PUT THIS ON THE NEWS!"

All because of how much the secular world hates it's christian roots. Talking about christians makes them feel awkward because it reminds them that Europe USED to be Christian countries. Therefore, it's easier for them to talk about muslims being killed, jews being killed or yazidis being killed. These countries make me sick... discriminating a*sholes...

I don't think it has to do with the religion, but the fact that the gaza situation between Hamas and Israel has been resolved with a ceasefire, and the fact that ISIS invaded Lebanon (even though there is a cease fire there), and the harsh discrimination and mass killings in the ISIS controlled regions has popped up more and more on the internet and social media sites around the world that the other nations are now realizing ISIS as a potential threat, whereas before they were just another terror group gaining some ground. However, Gaza is more geopolitically important to the USA being closer to Israel than Iraq or Syria in terms of domination. And now ISIS is the next thing, it's bigger, even though there's a massive stalemate between ISIS and the iraqi and Kurdish army right now, as far as I can see.



on Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:37 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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mini0013xx wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:Finally something is being done!

Obama is considering air strikes against ISIS: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/obama-weighs-military-strikes-to-aid-trapped-iraqis-officials-say.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

France calls for UN security meeting: http://www.todayonline.com/world/france-calls-un-security-council-meeting-over-iraq-situation

This is good news but you know what REALLY pisses me off? It's that the whole world didn't give a single f*ck when tens of thousands of christians were fleeing from Mousul and there was not anything mentioned about it on TV, but now that a few kurds have died and now that 40 000 yazidi are trapped in the mountains... "OH HOLD ON, SOMEONE OTHER THAN CHRISTIANS ARE GETTING KILLED! WE CAN'T HAVE THIS! PUT THIS ON THE NEWS!"

All because of how much the secular world hates it's christian roots. Talking about christians makes them feel awkward because it reminds them that Europe USED to be Christian countries. Therefore, it's easier for them to talk about muslims being killed, jews being killed or yazidis being killed. These countries make me sick... discriminating a*sholes...

I don't think it has to do with the religion, but the fact that the gaza situation between Hamas and Israel has been resolved with a ceasefire, and the fact that ISIS invaded Lebanon (even though there is a cease fire there), and the harsh discrimination and mass killings in the ISIS controlled regions has popped up more and more on the internet and social media sites around the world that the other nations are now realizing ISIS as a potential threat, whereas before they were just another terror group gaining some ground. However, Gaza is more geopolitically important to the USA being closer to Israel than Iraq or Syria in terms of domination. And now ISIS is the next thing, it's bigger, even though there's a massive stalemate between ISIS and the iraqi and Kurdish army right now, as far as I can see.

That is definately a big part of it, but I think what I said is also true to an extent. Because they are still not reporting this properly. In todays public sevice news they said that 40 000 people have been driven from their homes in Iraq and that they are Yazidi. They didn't even mention the word "christians" or the like 160 000 other people who have been driven from their homes, nor did they mention that the city with the largest christian population in Iraq was just captured: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28686998.

There was also a debate about Iraq schedueled on this evenings public service, people had prepared speeches and everything, but in the last minute they decided to cancel it. Sweden in particular is extremly atheistic, and sometimes even anti-theistic. So this biased journalism doesn't surprise me.



on Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:09 pm

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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Mad Mike wrote:
mini0013xx wrote:

I don't think it has to do with the religion, but the fact that the gaza situation between Hamas and Israel has been resolved with a ceasefire, and the fact that ISIS invaded Lebanon (even though there is a cease fire there), and the harsh discrimination and mass killings in the ISIS controlled regions has popped up more and more on the internet and social media sites around the world that the other nations are now realizing ISIS as a potential threat, whereas before they were just another terror group gaining some ground. However, Gaza is more geopolitically important to the USA being closer to Israel than Iraq or Syria in terms of domination. And now ISIS is the next thing, it's bigger, even though there's a massive stalemate between ISIS and the iraqi and Kurdish army right now, as far as I can see.

That is definately a big part of it, but I think what I said is also true to an extent. Because they are still not reporting this properly. In todays public sevice news they said that 40 000 people have been driven from their homes in Iraq and that they are Yazidi. They didn't even mention the word "christians" or the like 160 000 other people who have been driven from their homes, nor did they mention that the city with the largest christian population in Iraq was just captured: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28686998.

There was also a debate about Iraq schedueled on this evenings public service, people had prepared speeches and everything, but in the last minute they decided to cancel it. Sweden in particular is extremly atheistic, and sometimes even anti-theistic. So this biased journalism doesn't surprise me.

Oh I see. Anti-theism in particular is very annoying in terms that people are willing to attack others based on something they believe in because they believe in something else (in an anti-theists point of view, nothing).

And I have a feeling Isis will be a little road bump, but if real military intervention is considered, they're gonna have to train the military personnel to not be afraid to shoot the ISIS child soldiers. :/



on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:25 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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The UN is streaming their security counsil meeting right now, might be interesting to watch:
http://webtv.un.org/live-now/watch/security-council-media-stakeouts-unamid-unami/2179486580001/



on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:35 pm

Mad Mike | 4185 Gwendolyn's Minion

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Seems like finally the world is realising that, as bad as they might be, the Syrian government is the only way to go if you are to stabilize the country and the region.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/22/bashar-al-assad-syria-james-foley-british-us-foreign-policy?CMP=fb_gu

Hopefully this could lead to co-operation with the Syrian government (although it's very unlikely considering the US and it's allies have invested millions into taking them down) to get rid of these terrorist scum.



on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:26 pm

mini0013xx | 4285 Undaunted Member

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Mad Mike wrote:Seems like finally the world is realising that, as bad as they might be, the Syrian government is the only way to go if you are to stabilize the country and the region.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/22/bashar-al-assad-syria-james-foley-british-us-foreign-policy?CMP=fb_gu

Hopefully this could lead to co-operation with the Syrian government (although it's very unlikely considering the US and it's allies have invested millions into taking them down) to get rid of these terrorist scum.

Syrian government is better than the Syrian rebels.

And, once Syria gets themselves together in their own country (as there's a huge free for all in that area) then they can move on to deal with ISIS and other terror organizations they're fighting to get their land back under their own control.



on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:29 pm

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